Tag: overview

The Bible and Our Very Flat Earth

Edit 2:

Edit 1: July 14, 2016: Added section ‘The Visible Second Coming of Christ” at bottom.  Coming next: General biblical cosmology – What does the Bible say about the rest of the universe?

First Publication: July 2016


While I continue my journey down the flat earth versus globe earth investigation, it has become apparent a need to pull together a simple list of any scriptures in the Bible that seem to support a flat earth model and, should I find any, include those that support a globe earth model. To give credit where credit is due, many of the foundational scriptures of this post come from this video.

Why Bother Exploring This at All?

Truth.  Does truth matter?

  • Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (John 17:17)
  • [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he. (Deuteronomy 32:4)
  • For thy mercy [is] great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds. (Psalm 57:10)
  •  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)
  •  He that answereth a matter before he heareth [it], it [is] folly and shame unto him. (Proverbs 18:13)
  • One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. (Deuteronomy 19:15)
  • All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (1 Timothy 3:16)
  • God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. (Romans 3:4)

The last scripture “Let God be true, but every man a liar” needs to be our modus operandi (M.O.) for receiving any information.  This is the information generation and therefore the greater the need for better filters.  One needs to take the position that every word of man is a lie and that every word from God is true.  Assume the world is lying and be surprised when it is not.  After all, Satan is the father of lies.

Let all men be liars.  Let God be true.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.

If you love the truth and seek it, and filter everything through the assumption that everything you were ever taught other than God’s word may very well be giant pile of steaming something, then you are in a good position to find the truth and read your Bible in a new and exciting way!

The Implications – Why the Lie?

The very moment you start to explore even the possibility that the earth may be flat, you simultaneously must also ask yourself, “Self: why the lie?”

The Globe Earth Model Seems to Be a Direct Attack on God’s Word

Genesis shows that the earth was created first (1:1), then vegetation (1:11) and then, after the earth and vegetation were already there, God brings forth the sun and moon (1:14) – therefore members of mainstream modern ‘science’ present a direct and polar opposite attack on God’s word.  This should come as no surprise because evolution, also presented by the same group, constitutes a direct attack on the very creation and image of man as the Lord says clearly that He made us in His image (1:26), not as a byproduct of random monkey business.

The Great Deception

Although there isn’t a lot of time to expound on this one, there are several scriptures in the Bible that seem to indicate that ‘space’ and ‘asteroids’ and ‘green aliens’ will form part of the end time shenanigans of the anti-Christ and the final deception.  His ‘lying wonders’ will deceive even the elect and this never-preached, never-read and never discussed scripture has always seemed a little too close to the popular presentation of ‘aliens’ – which are clearly demonic in nature:

And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. (Revelations 16:13-14)

Something is definitely ‘up’ with aliens and world-wide deception…

Money and Power

One simple thing that people forget is that organizations like NASA, and all those that are connected to it, make a lot of money.  They literally suck the money out of taxpayer jeans without account.  For what?  A few rockets fired up every few years?  Imagine if that money was dispersed to the needy of the earth for food, clean water, shelter and clothing?  Instead there is a money train that needs to keep chugging along.  And there are powerful people who want this globe earth model to continue.  It helps the average person feel very small and powerless and for those on top, who know the truth, it helps them feel much more powerful than they really are.

Why this Matters

If the above didn’t, of its own accord, pull your heart strings and stir inside of you a certain feeling of a concern that you may be already be deeply deceived, and if you need further help seeing why this topic matters, we now present the following list of reasons:

  • All of our astronomical teachings collapse
  • Atheism collapses
  • Humanism collapses
  • NASA and space exploration collapse and therefore must be a scam
  • Aliens (at least their origin and nature) collapse
  • Airlines and telecoms must be involved
  • Hollywood and popular music are involved
  • etc

But God’s word remains.

O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called (1 Timothy 6:20)

Keep in mind as you explore this topic that a very large chunk of science is based on faith, not fact.  A theory is just a theory.  When ‘theory’ is taught as ‘fact’ we need to get very involved and concerned.  Evolution is just such an example.  And so it must be noted that scientists are not ‘unbelievers’ as they often claim.  Instead, they absolutely believe – but just not the words of the Bible.  They have faith in other things and other ways.  They indeed have their own gods and faith.

Scientists also have a long history of lying to the world.  Money always talks.  If the margarine producers of the world need to sell more margarine, they will find the right scientists to find the right data to present to the world in the right way.  Then when the butter producers realize their sales have plummeted because of this new and convenient ‘scientific data’ about margarine, they’ll go do the same.

Even though it may seem that I am 100% sold on the flat earth model, I am not yet fully there.  I log this journey only so that I can be sure I’m properly thinking it through and leaving a record for others to follow.  It is very inconvenient to try to explain all this when I meet people so I am hopeful that this post will be a good resource not only for myself but for others.

Consider a flat earth.

What you believe does matter.

The Scriptures

I have included Strong’s definition links for words that seem most critical for this study. You can and should, of course, go and do your own research because let God be true and all men liars, remember.

Immovable Earth

  •  Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. (1 Chronicles 16:30)
  • The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, [wherewith] he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. (Psalm 93:1)
  • Say among the heathen [that] the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously. (Psalm 96:10)

Foundation/Foundations of the Earth

  • And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.(2 Samuel 22:16)
  • Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils. (Psalms 18:15)
  • Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens [are] the work of thy hands. (Psalm 102:25)
  • When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:  When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth (Proverbs 8:27-29)
  • Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: [when] I call unto them, they stand up together. (Isaiah 48:13)
  • Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. (2 Samuel 22:8)
  • They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. (Psalm 82:5)
  • Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; (Job 38:4-6)
  • [Who] laid the foundations of the earth, [that] it should not be removed for ever. (Psalm 104:5)

Pillars

  • He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD’S, and he hath set the world upon them. (1 Samuel 2:8)
  • Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. (Job 9:6)

Four Corners of the Earth

  • And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (Isaiah 11:12)
  • Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land. (Ezekiel 7:2)
  • And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (Revelation 7:1)

Ends of the Earth

  •  [Namely], of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth (Deuteronomy 13:7)

Solid Dome Firmament Canopy

  • And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. (Genesis 1:6-8)
  • And above the firmament that [was] over their heads [was] the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne [was] the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. (Ezekiel 1:26)
  • Hast thou with him spread out the sky, [which is] strong, [and] as a molten looking glass? (Job 37:18)
  • Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. (2 Samuel 22:8)

Sun and Moon Travel Around the Earth (geocentric)

  • Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which [is] as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, [and] rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth [is] from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. (Psalm 19:4-6) (Read expanded comments on this scripture here)
  • The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. (Ecclesiastes 1:5)
  • Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. (Joshua 10:12-13)
  • The sun [and] moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, [and] at the shining of thy glittering spear. (Habakkuk 3:11)

Disc/Circle versus Globe/Ball

  • Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which [is] as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, [and] rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth [is] from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. (Psalm 19:4-6)
  • Thus [were] the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof [was] great. 11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: (Daniel 4:10-11)
  • [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in (Isaiah 40:22)
  • Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them (Matthew 4:8)
  • To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy [endureth] for ever. (Psalms 136:6)
  • Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself (Isaiah 44:24)

The Visible Second Coming of Jesus

IMG_20160714_063057

Before considering the flat earth model, I used to struggle with several scriptures that speak clearly of the second coming of Christ.  When I read the Word of God it seemed clear that I, and all the inhabitants of the earth would see, with our own eyes, the return of Jesus.  Yet, how is this possible if Jesus shows up in China and I’m on the top of the basketball in North America?  I resolved that Jesus would have to rely on man’s technology (ie. TV, internet streaming, etc) in order for every eye to see… which never quite sat well with a mortal man such as I…  The following scriptures either straight-up tell us that we will see Him with our eyes, or infer it:

  • And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:9-11)
  • Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)
  • For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matthew 24:27)
  • And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:30)
  • Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Matthew 26:64)
  • And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. (Mark 13-26-27)
  • And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Mark 14:62)
  • Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (Luke 21: 26-27)
  • For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

I look forward to any comments, additions, revelations to add to this post.

 

 

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Ubuntu Phone About to Shake Things Up

I’ve been an Ubuntu fan since 2009 now.  As soon as I met Ubuntu it was game over for all my desktops, laptops, netbooks, home media servers, etc.  There was no competitor who could make a new or existing machine run so quickly and reliably, and without the pain of viruses and continual financial investments to keep it up to date.  The most exciting thing was that no one owned me.  When I heard that Ubuntu was moving to the phone, I purchased a Nexus 4 (N4) so that I could go along for the ride, as that was the first device for development.

I flashed it on, and took it for a ride.  The first thing I noticed was how amazing the user interface was.  It was as if (shocking as this may sound) someone had actually designed a phone with the user in mind.   When I was forced to use a fruit-phone by the big fruit company for a job once, it was like driving a luxury sports car with one arm cut off and in a cement warehouse:  high quality hardware, perhaps, but I’d rather have my freedom and functionality, thank you.  The big US spy agency phone (google/android) not only spied on me, but also has a user interface experience that never quite made sense.  It was (and still is) difficult to do some basic setting changes.  I tried cyanogen mod as a bit of a ‘lesser-of-two-evils’ but it too had the same issues because ultimately it’s all built on the same shaky foundation.

Ubuntu, on the other hand, is built with freedom and people in mind.  Randall Ross wrote a great post a while back about the pillars of Ubuntu (seven P’s) This article really helps us understand why Ubuntu is not just software.  Randall has been preaching this message for years but only now it’s starting to really hit home with some people.  People are starting to ‘get’ that they have been sold a bad deal for computers (Ubuntu has already taken over that show) but now also the computers we carry in our pockets.

As a business owner as well as sales person for our company, I will not deny that there were some bumpy roads in the beginning.  I needed some basic things that a smart phone could offer which were a bit buggy when Ubuntu launched on the phone a few years back.  I would flash back and forth between the bondage robot (android) and Ubuntu on my N4 while I tried to do my sales job.  No battle is easy and it was never promised to be so.  Some naysayers would laugh and say ‘why don’t you just wait until they have fixed it’?  This would anger me because “relying on they” is what has caused the world to be enslaved by their technology.  I knew that I could not wait for ‘they’ to fix things.  I had to become part of the solution somehow.  So I would stay up to date the best I could, periodically flash in and out and watch the growth. I would offer my feedback and needs to the developer groups and to my surprise, I found out that I wasn’t alone.  Others were listening, fixing, building, changing, debating, enhancing and more.  I realized one very exciting thing – I was and still am part of what is a major revolution in technology.

A revolution?  Isn’t that word a bit strong?

No, it’s not.  Do you remember just a few years ago when every phone in every pocket was either a Blackberry or a Nokia?  It wasn’t that long ago.  I believe it was around 2006, perhaps.  Their day is over.  A revolution occurred, albeit perhaps not one that has not helped the world.  The employees at Blackberry and Nokia felt the revolution and when it came time to renew your nasty cell phone contract, you felt the revolution too.

But this revolution is different.  This one comes without catches, snags or enslavement.  This one allows you to finally have some control over your phone instead of it and ‘they’ having control over you.  Now tell me that that is not a revolution?  Unless your head is really deep in the fruit and robot sand, you will be nodding your head in agreement with me and looking painfully at the ‘nice phone’ you just bought.

And so we are at another turning point.

How do you know when it’s a turning point?  For me it’s when the ‘thing’ moves from the underground to the masses.  It’s the point when it starts to ‘peek out’ and when ‘regular people’ start to acknowledge that something is happening.  For me, it’s when the mainstream media has *no choice* but to start covering it or be forced to lose respect.

I believe today is the day.

This article on a very mainstream technology website (you can tell it’s mainstream by the nasty ads for Microsoft, etc, that interrupt your reading) covered the revolution.  This article explains how the excitement is now here.  The author is unable to deny that something is going on.  He is unable to restrain from wanting to be involved.

The timing on this article was also interesting for another reason.  It perfectly confirmed advice I gave to a friend who is in the middle of launching a kind of ‘uber business’.   He launched his business with the traditional iOS and Android ‘app’ approach.  He wanted to show it to me and so he instructed me to ‘download the app’.  After a short discussion, I explained to him that this business model may be outdated and on the way to extinction.  I did not want to be forced to give a big bad company my information (including GPS location!) to explore my friends business on my phone. I explained politely that he was violating my privacy.  By the end of the conversation, I believe that he took my advice to *strongly consider* moving his development to the Ubuntu platform – a place where he will be immediately received with a warm embrace, not to mention a place that is future proof.

Every business that uses technology (and I believe that is *every* business) needs to seriously consider where they will be in three years.  The way of the fruit and the slave robot is now over.  With the Meizu Pro 5, there is now a very exciting and viable option out of the box.  There are no more excuses to not jump in with all support.  Not only will you bring more freedom to your customers but you will also sleep better at night knowing that the future of your success is not in the hands of a few very powerful people.

Today is a new and very exciting day for the Ubuntu project.

 

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Flat Earth vs Globe Earth and Why it Matters to You

It has taken me about three months to put out this first post on this topic. It took about two of those three months to process the emotional elements associated with a paradigm shift and the remaining month to more positively embrace and learn about what originally seemed as an archaic and outlandish pile of beefdirt (slightly different from hogwash).

Before considering anything, I want you to first try an experiment. Regardless of what you believe about anything, I want you to approach someone, perhaps a teacher, a lawyer, or someone else of repute and simply make a statement. In order to get them to cooperate, I recommend prefacing the questions with something like this: “I wanted to get your feedback on a few people I know and their positions on things”  The first survey question is this:

“Someone I know believes that earth is a kind of experiment and that aliens from another planet put us here. This guy basically believes in aliens. What do you think?”

Now, we are not looking here for their opinion, nor do we care about our own. What we are looking for is their *reaction*.  Now it’s time for the second question to the same person:

“Someone else I know believes that there is a God. Like a real person who created the whole world. What do you think about this?”

Again, we don’t care about their opinion or ours, just their *reaction*. Finally, the third and final one:

“This other guy I know believes that the earth is flat and that everything we’ve been taught in our textbooks about the ‘ball earth’ may not be true.”

And note the reaction between all three.

It has been my experience that people will react politely and with respect to the first two. They may disagree, think they are ridiculous or like a fairy tail, but there still an element of respect in the way they communicate. However, what is most intriguing to me is that when someone is presented with the idea that the earth is flat, for some reason this one creates a very clear reaction. It goes like this:

1. Shocked Disbelief

In this first stage you typically hear things like “You’ve got to be joking, right?” and “You aren’t serious, are you?” and “HA, HA, HA!!!”

2. Insulting Ridicule

During this stage, and it comes right away, statements like “Did this person even go to elementary school?” and “Did this person die in the dark ages and wake up today?” or even things like “Does this person even have a brain?”  The tone is often quite insulting and loaded with ridicule -akin perhaps to an adult who believes in Santa.

3.  Separation

During this stage you will notice that people around the flat earther who is considering the idea that the earth might be flat will be treated as if they had just dropped a nasty fart.  Slowly and politely people start separating from them and try to avoid being connected with this person.  This person is now socially awkward.  Keep in mind that green aliens were not…

4. Anger

Should the person who is considering the flat earth model make it through stages 1 to 3, the next stage is more challenging.  Family, friends and anyone else in the tight circle will begin to get a bit angry.  Without any in depth study of the model, they will make bold statements such as ‘You’re wrong” and “You need to drop this flat earth thing” and “You are crazy and I don’t want to talk about this any more” or “Seriously, WTF is wrong with you?”  You know – angry statements.

So unlike the alien or deities, for some odd reason this topic shakes people up.  It really gets to their core.  It stirs something up inside of them that other discussion topics don’t.  I was left to truly ponder this and think about why it was that such emotions and reactions were incited.  In fact, it was these reactions that propelled me to study it beyond a surface glance.

Then I thought about 9/11.

The 9/11 incident used to be in a similar position.  When Loose Change came out, it was highly unpopular to discuss the possibility that a power higher than the public authorities and governments may have been involved in the destruction of the buildings and the innocent lives on USA land.  Yet after much investigation it is quite obvious that there is either ‘significant proof’ or ‘a strong reason to dispute the public report’.  Yet, all of the above stages/reactions could be observed if one were to present such an unpopular idea.

Yet, many of the people I know who believe that 9/11 was an inside job still display the above stages towards me when I present the flat earth idea to them.  Even though there is significant physical evidence to support the model, the reactions overpower the willingness to look.

So I was forced again to think about why the flat earth is even more unpopular than 9/11 as a inside job.  I have now concluded that the reason is quite simple.

The Bible clearly preaches the flat earth model.

The world hates God, has an agenda against the Bible, and fights tooth and nail against all truth found therein.

Other such examples of faith-based emotion-stirring topics are:

  • we evolved from monkeys randomly  VS a loving God created us thoughtfully
  • me and my interests are most important VS God and God’s interests are most important
  • store up treasures in earth VS store up treasures in heaven
  • if someone hits you, hit them back VS if someone hits you, turn and let them hit the other cheek, too
  • if someone wrongs you, it’s ok to hate them VS forgive your enemy continually
  • divorce is ok VS divorce is not ok
  • abortion is ok VS abortion is not ok
  • homosexuality is normal VS homosexuality is not normal
  • we are specks of random dust, on a random ball, flying through space VS we are created beings, on a flat surface on the centre stage of everything God made for us

And so my conclusion is that in order for this topic to be so vehemently opposed, and with such gusto, there must be truly something here worth investigating further.

Stay tuned as I slowly explore this most interesting topic.

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Getting Started with Retroshare on Ubuntu: The Secure Communications Hub

Retroshare is awesome.  It’s secure.  It’s simple (once you get rolling) and it’s highly useful.  I found getting the initial few friends in was a ‘little’ tricky without a familiarization tour so here is a video I made to help folks out.  I sent it to my mom so we’ll know how effective it is shortly, we hope…

 

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Kakao Talk Privacy Problems

I was always too busy to try to research why something about Kakao Talk bothered me.  The first time I put it on my mobile device I was mesmerized by the way it, without any involvement of my own, loaded a contact list of people I knew who were using it, or not.  I was mesmerized until I thought about where that data came from and then realized it came from my own phone’s contact list.

So this thing raided my contact list and grabbed data without me ok’ing it…  people I had called just once from my phone are now my Kakao friends…

Then I watched pretty much every Korean I knew show up on this.  Then a few folks from Iran, then pretty much right across the board.

Then I saw photos being shared and the app taking over as the main hub of the phone.  When they introduced a kind fof VOIP peer-to-peer calling it was game over.  Kakao *was* their phone.

Within short notice I deleted the app.  I don’t recall if I closed the account..

Today a Korean student of mine pointed out that she thought she was ‘ok’ in terms of privacy because she doesn’t really use Facebook.  I asked if she used Kakao Talk.  She said ‘yes’.  I said ‘There you go.  You are in danger.” She was shocked. The problem is that I didn’t have anything concrete to tell her.  So I decided to do some research for her.  Here is what I found to start with and your comments would be great to hear.  Perhaps some stories of privacy issues.

This story should just about sum it up.  When the police came knocking, Kakao Talk quickly handed over what they asked for.

Here is a quote from their privacy policy that should concern you [my comments in these bracket things:

KAKAO will collect the following information to make our services better.

When you sign up for the Services or in the course of your use of the Services, KAKAO will collect your telephone number, contact information saved on your smartphone [I read this as *ALL CONTACT DATA*] or other device [other devices, like computers or wherever else you have installed this tentacled animal] (telephone numbers and names of third parties) [I read ‘third parties’ as ALL YOUR FRIENDS and FAMILY IN YOUR PHONE] , device-specific information, operation system and hardware information including the OS version, CPU and LAN card information, legal guardian information (if you are under 14 years of age), your status information [whatever you type in your status updates they know *AND USE*], name, birth date, ID [ID??????  WTF??], photos (including meta-information) [meta information includes *WHERE YOU ARE* by the way, if you didn’t know], service usage history, email address, location information [they already got that from your photos], IP address [this shows where you are as well] and cookies through the official website of KAKAO, individual applications or programs. KAKAO will also collect shipping information (including the name, mobile phone number and address) [Oh. Now they just take your mailing address.  Don’t worry. They already got it pretty close from the other data they took from you above] to ship your purchases [That’s a nice cover]. In addition to the above information [wait! We haven’t taken enough yet! We want MORE!], KAKAO may collect your credit card information [Why not? The CEO needs a bottle of wine with lunch], carrier information, gift certificate number or other information required for payment processing when you use paid services. Given the nature of the Services, the personal information we collect may differ depending on the application or program. Before you get started with an application or program, KAKAO will inform you of the personal information we collect to which you must consent in order to use the Service [that, sucker, was the little checkbox you clicked before you were allowed to start using it].

If that wasn’t enough, they also have special agreements with a bunch of other companies that they share your information with.  That means, that you will also have to study each of these companies to see how they are using your photos and information.  Good luck. You may need a few hundred years to do that.  Whenever you use their ‘services’ [what does that mean?] you agree to let them send all your data to:

We provide the following personal information to third parties to handle customer enquiries:

Parties to be provided with your personal information

  • Gifticon: SK Planet
  • Giftishow: KT mhows
  • GiftTing: Wincube Marketing
  • Cootoo: CJ E&M

It doesn’t get any better from there.

My recommendation would be to rid yourself of this app and it’s agreements ASAP.

One day your data will hurt you.

 

 

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