Category: Flat Earth
Let us continue our journey towards truth – whether hard or easy.
Did Jesus clearly ‘know about time zones’ and ‘talk about time zones’? Let’s take a look at the Bible in Matthew 24:36-42 and Luke 17:33-36 (pasted at the bottom for your convenience):
The argument against the flat earth model with these scriptures is that Jesus is ‘clearly talking about time zones’ which therefore implies that Jesus knew about time zones and therefore was heliocentric in his cosmology (that was a partial joke). I believe this argument is very weak and assumes on scripture that isn’t there because Jesus did not say ‘time zones’ or refer to them at all. The bullet points of what he is saying in these scriptures are:
- some people will be in the middle of what they are doing (sleeping, working, whatever) when it happens
- it is a unified event at one point in time
- no one knows the day or the hour
- In Matthew it doesn’t specify daylight or dark hours but calls it ‘day’ which has both light and dark hours in a 24 hour day
- In Luke it specifies both day (Luke 17:30) and then a few verses later night (verse 34)
Instead of assuming that God is talking about a globe earth time zone it would be better to assume only what is written which is that the coming of Jesus will occur while people are going about their daily lives.
In addition, when these scriptures were presented to a few people unbiased on the helio/geocentric models) around me as ‘proof for a time zone globe earth’ they immediately said “Well how do they know that the women aren’t grinding at the mill on a night shift?”
The answer is ‘we don’t’ and ‘they could have been’.
Because Jesus isn’t focused on cosmology in these scriptures but instead warning us to be ready wherever we are and in the middle of whatever we are doing.
Plus, these scriptures work just fine on both a globe earth and a flat earth model. In the globe earth it’s a time zone but on the flat earth the sun has simply moved away so it’s dark on one part and light on the other.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two [women shall be] grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two [men] shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
This video was sent to me as I have a strong interest in the topic of whether the earth is a ball or a flat surface.
As I journey towards truth, popular sources still tell me it’s a ball but all my senses tell me it’s immovable and flat…
The first thing that caught my attention was at 1:23 into the video the narrator said “His work was rewarded when NASA commended his work.”
When I reviewed the video again, the second thing I noticed was the incredible variation of curvatures. These three images, are three different screen shots from the very same video. Go look for yourself…
The top is clearly concave.
The middle, as flat as a pancake.
The bottom, “NASA convex”
Something is fishy here and methinks it’s the lenses.
My conclusion is that this craft was outfitted with a fish eye lens (from now on lightly dubbed ‘fishy lens’) and cannot be trusted as a what-you-see-is-what-you-get (“WYSIWYG”) video result.
It also reinforced the fact that unless one personally inspects the camera equipment being loaded onto a craft, and personally confirms the final product has not been tampered with, one cannot fully trust the video results other than for non curvature-proving purposes. I personally enjoy this video, but I cannot use it as any form of ‘proof of curvature’ – unless you believe the earth is a bouncy castle (that sounds really fun, by the way).
This video by Rob Skiba is another great one that shows amazingly weird effects that camera lenses have on the surface of the earth.
This also highlights the growing need for a ‘freedom approach’ to these projects where free software (publicly available source code, built by community) runs everything. Ubuntu with Snappy Ubuntu and ability to run on very small devices is one example I see fitting well here. As we get further and further buried under technology and information, the more we all need to take an active role in maintaining the freedom of said information.
Can we fully trust NASA to give us the untampered photos, videos, and live feeds that we need to make such important world view decisions?
Based on what I have seen so far, I would boldly say ‘No.”
It’s time for an increase in WYSIWYG community-built projects to find out for ourselves what our world looks like.
Psalm 19, as follows and noted in this summary article is a very tough scripture to read and hold onto a globe earth model:
Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which [is] as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, [and] rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth [is] from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. (Psalm 19:4-6)
To begin the scripture we have a clear reference to the ‘end’ of the physical world. On a globe earth model, there are no ‘ends’ and you are supposed to be able to start at one point on the earth and complete a full circuit (circumnavigation). Since neither I, nor anyone I know, nor anyone they know has ever done this trip, I am unable to verify it first hand. Furthermore, it also requires faith that the globe earth map that we have been presented by popular sources, is in fact the truth. If you alter the map, you can alter your trips.
All I can be sure of, is that the Bible says here that the measuring line is able to reach the ‘ends of the world’ – a clear point of termination or a border/outskirt. Balls don’t have these.
The scriptures then go on to say that ‘in them’ He hath set a tabernacle for the sun. So, within the parameters of these borders of the earth, God has put in place a tent-like structure (“the heavens”?) in which the sun does its thing and moves. It seems that this tabernacle forms the limits to which the sun moves in. It does not say that it is flying through the limitless expanse of the vacuum of outer space, nor is there any reference to this that I can reasonably extract.
Next, the scriptures say:
Try as I might, but I am unable to interpret this scripture as anything other than:
- Heaven (the visible heavens) has an end/extremity
- The sun follows a circuit.
- The circuit mirrors the borders of the terminating edges of the heavens, or ends there and then loops back
- at some point during this circuit everything (that matters) is affected by the thermal heat
Edit 1: July 14, 2016: Added section ‘The Visible Second Coming of Christ” at bottom. Coming next: General biblical cosmology – What does the Bible say about the rest of the universe?
First Publication: July 2016
While I continue my journey down the flat earth versus globe earth investigation, it has become apparent a need to pull together a simple list of any scriptures in the Bible that seem to support a flat earth model and, should I find any, include those that support a globe earth model. To give credit where credit is due, many of the foundational scriptures of this post come from this video.
Why Bother Exploring This at All?
Truth. Does truth matter?
- Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. (John 17:17)
- [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he. (Deuteronomy 32:4)
- For thy mercy [is] great unto the heavens, and thy truth unto the clouds. (Psalm 57:10)
- Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)
- He that answereth a matter before he heareth [it], it [is] folly and shame unto him. (Proverbs 18:13)
- One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. (Deuteronomy 19:15)
- All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (1 Timothy 3:16)
- God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. (Romans 3:4)
The last scripture “Let God be true, but every man a liar” needs to be our modus operandi (M.O.) for receiving any information. This is the information generation and therefore the greater the need for better filters. One needs to take the position that every word of man is a lie and that every word from God is true. Assume the world is lying and be surprised when it is not. After all, Satan is the father of lies.
Let all men be liars. Let God be true.
Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.
If you love the truth and seek it, and filter everything through the assumption that everything you were ever taught other than God’s word may very well be giant pile of steaming something, then you are in a good position to find the truth and read your Bible in a new and exciting way!
The Implications – Why the Lie?
The very moment you start to explore even the possibility that the earth may be flat, you simultaneously must also ask yourself, “Self: why the lie?”
The Globe Earth Model Seems to Be a Direct Attack on God’s Word
Genesis shows that the earth was created first (1:1), then vegetation (1:11) and then, after the earth and vegetation were already there, God brings forth the sun and moon (1:14) – therefore members of mainstream modern ‘science’ present a direct and polar opposite attack on God’s word. This should come as no surprise because evolution, also presented by the same group, constitutes a direct attack on the very creation and image of man as the Lord says clearly that He made us in His image (1:26), not as a byproduct of random monkey business.
The Great Deception
Although there isn’t a lot of time to expound on this one, there are several scriptures in the Bible that seem to indicate that ‘space’ and ‘asteroids’ and ‘green aliens’ will form part of the end time shenanigans of the anti-Christ and the final deception. His ‘lying wonders’ will deceive even the elect and this never-preached, never-read and never discussed scripture has always seemed a little too close to the popular presentation of ‘aliens’ – which are clearly demonic in nature:
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. (Revelations 16:13-14)
Something is definitely ‘up’ with aliens and world-wide deception…
Money and Power
One simple thing that people forget is that organizations like NASA, and all those that are connected to it, make a lot of money. They literally suck the money out of taxpayer jeans without account. For what? A few rockets fired up every few years? Imagine if that money was dispersed to the needy of the earth for food, clean water, shelter and clothing? Instead there is a money train that needs to keep chugging along. And there are powerful people who want this globe earth model to continue. It helps the average person feel very small and powerless and for those on top, who know the truth, it helps them feel much more powerful than they really are.
Why this Matters
If the above didn’t, of its own accord, pull your heart strings and stir inside of you a certain feeling of a concern that you may be already be deeply deceived, and if you need further help seeing why this topic matters, we now present the following list of reasons:
- All of our astronomical teachings collapse
- Atheism collapses
- Humanism collapses
- NASA and space exploration collapse and therefore must be a scam
- Aliens (at least their origin and nature) collapse
- Airlines and telecoms must be involved
- Hollywood and popular music are involved
But God’s word remains.
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called (1 Timothy 6:20)
Keep in mind as you explore this topic that a very large chunk of science is based on faith, not fact. A theory is just a theory. When ‘theory’ is taught as ‘fact’ we need to get very involved and concerned. Evolution is just such an example. And so it must be noted that scientists are not ‘unbelievers’ as they often claim. Instead, they absolutely believe – but just not the words of the Bible. They have faith in other things and other ways. They indeed have their own gods and faith.
Scientists also have a long history of lying to the world. Money always talks. If the margarine producers of the world need to sell more margarine, they will find the right scientists to find the right data to present to the world in the right way. Then when the butter producers realize their sales have plummeted because of this new and convenient ‘scientific data’ about margarine, they’ll go do the same.
Even though it may seem that I am 100% sold on the flat earth model, I am not yet fully there. I log this journey only so that I can be sure I’m properly thinking it through and leaving a record for others to follow. It is very inconvenient to try to explain all this when I meet people so I am hopeful that this post will be a good resource not only for myself but for others.
Consider a flat earth.
What you believe does matter.
I have included Strong’s definition links for words that seem most critical for this study. You can and should, of course, go and do your own research because let God be true and all men liars, remember.
- Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. (1 Chronicles 16:30)
- The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, [wherewith] he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. (Psalm 93:1)
- Say among the heathen [that] the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously. (Psalm 96:10)
Foundation/Foundations of the Earth
- And the channels of the sea appeared, the foundations of the world were discovered, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils.(2 Samuel 22:16)
- Then the channels of waters were seen, and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils. (Psalms 18:15)
- Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens [are] the work of thy hands. (Psalm 102:25)
- When he prepared the heavens, I [was] there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth (Proverbs 8:27-29)
- Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: [when] I call unto them, they stand up together. (Isaiah 48:13)
- Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. (2 Samuel 22:8)
- They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. (Psalm 82:5)
- Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; (Job 38:4-6)
- [Who] laid the foundations of the earth, [that] it should not be removed for ever. (Psalm 104:5)
- He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD’S, and he hath set the world upon them. (1 Samuel 2:8)
- Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. (Job 9:6)
Four Corners of the Earth
- And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (Isaiah 11:12)
- Also, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, the end is come upon the four corners of the land. (Ezekiel 7:2)
- And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (Revelation 7:1)
Ends of the Earth
- [Namely], of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth (Deuteronomy 13:7)
Solid Dome Firmament Canopy
- And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. (Genesis 1:6-8)
- And above the firmament that [was] over their heads [was] the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne [was] the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. (Ezekiel 1:26)
- Hast thou with him spread out the sky, [which is] strong, [and] as a molten looking glass? (Job 37:18)
- Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. (2 Samuel 22:8)
Sun and Moon Travel Around the Earth (geocentric)
- Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which [is] as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, [and] rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth [is] from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. (Psalm 19:4-6) (Read expanded comments on this scripture here)
- The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose. (Ecclesiastes 1:5)
- Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day. (Joshua 10:12-13)
- The sun [and] moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, [and] at the shining of thy glittering spear. (Habakkuk 3:11)
Disc/Circle versus Globe/Ball
- Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which [is] as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, [and] rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth [is] from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. (Psalm 19:4-6)
- Thus [were] the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof [was] great. 11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth: (Daniel 4:10-11)
- [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in (Isaiah 40:22)
- Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them (Matthew 4:8)
- To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy [endureth] for ever. (Psalms 136:6)
- Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself (Isaiah 44:24)
The Visible Second Coming of Jesus
Before considering the flat earth model, I used to struggle with several scriptures that speak clearly of the second coming of Christ. When I read the Word of God it seemed clear that I, and all the inhabitants of the earth would see, with our own eyes, the return of Jesus. Yet, how is this possible if Jesus shows up in China and I’m on the top of the basketball in North America? I resolved that Jesus would have to rely on man’s technology (ie. TV, internet streaming, etc) in order for every eye to see… which never quite sat well with a mortal man such as I… The following scriptures either straight-up tell us that we will see Him with our eyes, or infer it:
- And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Acts 1:9-11)
- Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)
- For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matthew 24:27)
- And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:30)
- Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Matthew 26:64)
- And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. (Mark 13-26-27)
- And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Mark 14:62)
- Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (Luke 21: 26-27)
- For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)
I look forward to any comments, additions, revelations to add to this post.
There are many videos out there about whether or not the earth is flat or a globe. If you are a Bible believer, then you have a double duty of looking at this topic because, after all, the Bible is a flat earth book. Perhaps you glazed over the scriptures when you read them and filed them with ‘poetry’ or ‘simplistic teachings of science to an archaic world’. In either case, if you love the truth, you need to take a long hard look at this topic because it is absolutely important.
The implications of not looking at this could be tragic for you.
I found this video to be one of the best videos because it goes over many of the scientific issues but also incorporates all the scriptures so you can start a crash course on what the Bible says about the topic.
As I continue down the journey for truth and explore the globe earth versus flat earth discussion (it’s important), I came across another eureka point.
There is a man who, with his own eyes, traveled so high into the sky that he was able to see something very interesting: the edge of the earth.
If this weren’t so long ago, and if this guy had some agenda, or if he didn’t go so high, or if he wasn’t such a validated scientist, I might not be so challenged. But he is. And his report of what he saw should make you stop in your tracks and consider.
Although there are more than one videos out there on this, I find this video to be the best because it is quite exhaustive and the narrator has an awesome accent.